so i suspect through his whole life a little bit of an inferiority complex, especially when he went out east to school and he saw some people who made vast amounts of money, and that, of course, came out in tom buchanan in "the great gatsby." it's gerald had a really interesting relationship with people with money. they were his friends but i don't think he worshiped money. he was too frivolous with it. in order to be frivolous with money you had to have some so obviously, but he made a lot of money during his lifetime. he did make some money off his books. he made money off the motion picture. he made money while he was in hollywood. he made a pot load of money selling short stories. and so he worked really hard became it a lot of money but he didn't kind of like worship. i think he really felt the biblical, you know, it's the worship of money that's the root of all money -- people, not the money itself.
♪ ♪ ♪ >> when i had the opportunity to come to the ballroom, it is such a thrill for me because i know that this provided inspiration for fitzgerald, and the kind of stories that he was interested in to make money. the "saturday evening post" stories. this is the epitome of that huge volume of work that he produced that he felt a little bit ashamed of, but are wonderful stories. and so i see this as a real positive place for his career. there was one particular party at his house that actually fitzgerald didn't attend, and
apparently a young man -- it was a costume ball, and they like to have costume balls and this room would have been filled with many people in different options. a young man differently dressed up in a campbell's outfit and went to the wrong house. who knows why? anyway, the next day fitzgerald heard about the story and he said he tried to find out more information, but then he just sat down and wrote a short story called the camels back. fitzgerald said he didn't particularly like the story but one in o. henry award to his first star to win in o. henry award. it's a pretty nice story about a costume party that takes place here at the louis hillhouse. he said it in toledo, ohio, that anybody knows who knows who was here, a lot of people think it's fitzgerald made his money off
his writing early on but actually he was making it for movies. and so it was the movie money that encouraged zelda to marry him. edifact camels back became a movie called conductor 1492. it has very little to do with the story, but there is a dancing camel in the movie and that's about it. and so this is the scene from fitzgerald's o. henry prize-winning stories. at this point we need fighting these short stories for the "saturday evening post," he had already sold this side of paradise descriptors but it took a while for the book to be published. in the meantime short stories had already written, he was polishing and sending off to publication. he was writing of the short stories, and selling them to the publications and also selling them to the movies pics at this point he is in his 20s. what's really interesting is
when i was first doing research here, i would ask, people were still alive, and we always kind of heard about this outsider insider. they all denied he. they said no, he was a great friend. he was not an outsider. he was part of our group. it kind of puzzle me, that whole idea came from, but then i started asking if their parents were associated with his parents. no. so his mother and father, it kind of skipped a generation so his grandparents associated with the wealthy people of summit avenue, and he did it. but his parents didn't. and so there were reasons for the. as i said his father had lost his job. he was unemployed. his mother was a little quirky. and so they didn't run around a lot with the parents of the
children that fitzgerald ran around a lot with. so i'm sure that he got the feeling of also being a little bit of an outsider, so that he could step back and objectively right about that period without funding -- fawning over. f. scott fitzgerald himself probably sat at this bar. he wrote almost everything down, but he didn't say i was at the base the border i'm sure i'm guessing he was. so this is a pretty special place for fitzgerald's scholars when they come to st. paul to see the places where he socialized, or he worked, that inspired him. and so this is just one of the many places in st. paul that provided inspiration for f. scott fitzgerald and his stories. the university club was the center or one of the centers of
social life in st. paul back then. still is today. lots of weddings here. and fitzgerald was probably never a member but he had a lot of friends who would have been. so he would have had access to these rooms. he met several people here including donald ogden stewart can be convinced to become a writer and then went on to win an academy award for philadelphia story, and he had a party for zelda when they were living at goodrich. they called it a bad luck ball he does it was on friday the 13th. and to show you the extent that they would go to to entertain the guests, f. scott fitzgerald literally had a newspaper printed up, a full newspaper printed up with stories about friends of his who would recognize the stories. you would not want to be with a drunken f. scott fitzgerald at a
party, i'm guessing. he got pretty obnoxious. so i would say he was part of the obnoxious drunks. he might pick up some of the classes in this realm and throw them. he would tip over chairs. and zelda was kind of the same way, and so the two of them together, if they had been drinking heavily, it probably would've been pretty bad, yes. so i would have been with f. scott fitzgerald, i would have preferred a semi-sober f. scott fitzgerald. probably one of the reasons he wasn't a member, in theory you had to be a university graduate to be a member, and f. scott fitzgerald had dropped out of princeton. he sent for medical reasons. his grades weren't very good. and so, but he loved princeton. in fact, he was reading the princeton alumni weekly when he passed away, supposedly.
he wrote the plays for the triangle club when he was a member there. they were the group that toured the united states doing these performances, and he toured with them. he actually came back to the twin cities to do a performance as a man of the triangle club. princeton was a symbol to him and it was important to patty went there. and his whole life, despite the fact he never graduated, princeton have a place in his heart, a very important spot for him. after he had one zelda, they were married in new york city. neither her parents nor his parents came to the wedding. they did a european tour, just as his parents again after their marriage. and zelda discovered she was pregnant so they moved back to montgomery to be close to her parents. but it didn't work out, so f. scott fitzgerald wrote they moved back home to st. paul. they lived in a house out by the
lake that is kind of a summer resort. they lived in the hotel but, of course, they were going to have a family and so one of their good friends, her grandparents lived in this house and she got it for them so they can literally move into this house for the winter. it was a pretty brutal winter, and fitzgerald had an office downtown. he was working very hard. he was working on the proof pages of the beautiful and damned. he was writing the play, the vegetable. and i think part of this he took from his house but zelda was pretty bored. she tried to have parties at the university club. she didn't have a lot of friends. a lot of his friends lives didn't like her, probably because she was a little bit of a flirtatious southern belle and all their husbands liked her. but it just really wasn't going
where -- going very well in st. paul. they made it through the winter. they try to go back to white bear lake again, but it was pretty much decided by both of them that st. paul was not going to be the place where they're going to make their home. and it had a lot to do with the winters here. and so they moved back to new york. and then, of course, as we know, he lived in europe. he lived out in hollywood. but this was kind of the beginning of the end for them in st. paul. so that st. paul in 1922, and despite the fact that he said he was going to bring scottie back, the daughter was born here, he never made it back to st. paul. i think there were several influences st. paul had on him. one was the catholicism, that, of course, st. paul was and still is a very kind of roman catholic down, and his writing is filled with priests and good and bad, and a lot of people
have written about the influence of religion on f. scott fitzgerald. and he got that in st. paul. i also think his writing about the wealthy of course came from st. paul. and so, st. paul had this hold on him for most of his life. we needed money, you know, he would write short stories about st. paul. and so throughout much of his life he just, he was a st. paul, a midwest boy. and, of course, the line at the end of "the great gatsby," i guess this is a story about the midwest after all it and this is the midwest that he was mentioning in "the great gatsby." ♪ ♪ ♪ >> as a part of booktv's recent visit to st. paul, minnesota, we stop by the minnesota historical society library to learn about the impact of st. paul has had on pop culture on a national scale.
>> well, let me bring you into our clothes library stack. this is a research collection, sso nothing ever leads to pick the public doesn't get to come into the stacks. they have things paged for them. but this is 500,000 volume collection so this is one levels of our library stacks. and i like to think of it as a library of libraries. we have an incredible collection of native american material, which is especially rich in the dakota, the minnesota native americans. we have a nearly complete collection of books from the 19th century on the civil war. and leading up to that on the abolitionist movement. so this is a little bit of a glimpse. what i've done is pulled some of my favorites, some of the things
i consider treasures and love, and i'm going to show those to you individually. we could probably start, i guess, a good place would be with our map collection where the collection of almost 50,000 maps. they go from the mid-1500s to maps that were probably on the press yesterday afternoon. we get maps daily. this is a map of from 1581, and i like starting with this when i've got a group of school kids because there's no here, here. if you look at the center of the continent, there is not a single great lake. it isn't a mississippi river. there's nothing known about the interior of the continent. and what the minnesota historical society likes to do is fill in the information to the point where we know every square inch of land and who owns it. so we have what helps us fill in that gap, are all of our maps
from tribal land and exploration and discovery. this is a map that the company the lewis and clark report, and a pretty significant event in u.s. cartography. these shows that isn't going to be too easy to get across the continent. you see that range of mountains from the rockies. we also have this, probably my favorite item in the collection, is this popularly known as the atlas. this accompanied a trip up the missouri river by prince mcmillion bindweed and trained as an artist. so you can some quality that doesn't exist in the other artists renderings. this is just common it's just so beautiful and so detailed, you can count almost the beadwork
and the porcupine quills and all of these costumes. the one thing that people probably don't think about that minnesota historical society is a bad we are not only collecting minnesota history, but we are here to preserve minnesota culture. one at the waist we preserve minnesota culture is to collect literature. but what we like to do is collect the books that have some additional information, something that a normal library wouldn't have. a lot of libraries would have sinclair loses caste timberlands. we have a copy that he has given to this radical palooza judge who was the model for the judge. his name is judge nolan, mark no one. so we know that about him. plus that came with photos that judge nolan had taken of a picnic sinclair lewis on the
north shore of lake superior above to lose. i think they were trying to set sinclair lewis up with judge nolan secretary, so she is the other person in the photographs. he had a nice long career. he was writing in the late teens, and then in the '20s he wrote as a breakthrough book was main street, and that's essential reading for any minnesotans. the author that most people associate with the minnesota and st. paul in particular is of course f. scott fitzgerald. and the minnesota historical society just loves to document, especially the early life, the early career of f. scott fitzgerald and fits kennedy for he becomes a superstar. so i have a couple of fun things
here that are from that time period. and i will take a little time to show those to you. he published first in his school, well, i guess newsletter or something, and we have all of that. this i just love because this is junior high school textbook from printed in 1911. just kind of a crummy little book, yet if anybody soldiers, it wouldn't be more than a buck or two. we paid $25,000 for this. and the reason is because it was owned by francis scott fitzgerald, and you are so marginal notes in here and some marginal drawings. and that's kind of fun. but the really important thing
here is the last page of this. and the text, if i can read that to you, is just kind of, makes you slap your forehead. so he says, francis conference joe, st. paul, minnesota, and he describes himself. playwright, poet, novelist, essayist, philosopher, glover, useless, disagreeable, silly, talented, weak, strong, clever, trivial, a waste. in short, a very parity, a mockery of one who might have been more, but whom nature and circumstances made less. with apologies for living, francis scott fitzgerald. and then you get this flourish at the end of it. it's that this combination of a 15 year-old boy, and somebody who's really more insightful than the rest of us. so i think he kind of nails
himself. we also have, speaking of early stuff, he was asked in the fall of 1919, the librarian, the librarian at the same public library was trying to stay on top of local writers. so f. scott fitzgerald was one of them, and and he's saying, i know that he's got books in the work and short stories and he's a very certain he's going to become a writer someday, as is his military service record. and this is kind of fun because they asked your occupation, ma and he writes, was a student, am now a writer. so he is sure of that. we just got this letter that's
kind of fun. it comes out, the letter was written a month before his first book comes out and he's trying to hire a clipping service in new york. and he's telling the clipping service that he's a brand-new author, and he was an overnight sensation with this book, but a month before the book came out, he was so unimportant that the clipping service acknowledges receipt of the letter and rights, without reply, and they underlined that. they didn't even get back to him on that. another, like the saint clair is loose we like books that add information that wasn't known before, this is really a great example, that this is the beautiful and damned, and he has inscribed this to noris dean jackson who was a boyhood friend of his in st. paul and says
basically that the main antagonist here is modeled on jackson. so that kind of information is really important to us. the historic society, again, i think we have this image of being a very formal institution, but the library loves collecting old affection. so if paperback editions. this is a comic book that was published in st. paul, a catholic comic book, and the interesting thing about this is this has the first printed cartoon ever of charles schultz in the back of it. just keep laughing, by sparky. this was his home. he grew up on the corner of snelling and shelby. his dad was a barber. he went to school, central high school. he stayed here, you know, well into his formative career, then
moved out to california. i don't remember, or i think that was a decision of his, his wife. but he is very st. paul. i think the thing that i love about this collection is that you could come in and find out any aspect of minnesota, whether it's sports history or business history or immigrant history. and you can find things that are unique enough to make you very proud to be a st. paul light or a minnesotans, like his early fitzgerald stuff there but also think that there is enough depth at which you really walk away understand is that you have common humanity with everybody else. your experience is not different from your grandparents experience, different than the recent immigrants. and we are all impacted by the
place that we grew up. so i really like the fact that you can learn not only differences, but you're some letters to everybody else in the world. and i think that's one of the important, one of the many important aspects of history and what history can tell us. >> up next, hear why st. paul became a safe haven for the most wanted men and women in the country from paul maccabee, author of "john dillinger slept here: a crooks tour of crime and corruption in st. paul, 1920-1936". >> where cities all over america were safe havens for gangsters, hot springs, arkansas, outside chicago, but more than any of those others states cities was st. paul. is estimated that 50% of minnesotans were involved in making bootleg liquor in those days.
the other 50% were buying it from them. this minnesota area was also well situated to make bootleg liquor, to break the prohibition law. read a lot of germans and germans know how to make beer. we had more prerace per capita than almost any city in america. when you break the law and make illegal liquor, you need water. you need fresh water. we have the mississippi river only a few yards from where we're standing today. and we are very close to the border of canada. selector could be imported and exported over the canadian border. ..
basically the police in st. paul at the turn of the century sent the word out to gangsters, bank robbers, kidnappers, come to st. st. paul. you can be here. you have to promise not to kill or robbed anyone within the city limits of st. paul and, of course, pay a bribe. as long as you are on good behavior you are welcome. the deal between the cracks and the gangsters was tolerated for almost three decades. the people of st. paul was he the most notorious gangsters in america, wanted men like john villager walking along the
street, and it was like seeing a celebrity, but you would not fear for your life because you knew the fix was in and the croats were on their best behavior. living right behind us in apartment 303 of st. paul's lincoln court apartment. basically regroup to get his bank robbery. so he was here is enjoying time with his girlfriend. they went to the movies one block away from us. meanwhile, his game is getting weapons coming getaway cars, and case in which banks to rob from their home base here in st. st. paul. the fbi did not know that this was john dillinger, but they began to get hands that a strange man was living in this apartment building.
the shades were always drawn to the bottom. he never came out to get his mail. the big tipoff was his girlfriend, a beautiful indian woman from wisconsin for would come out on this crass and hang up his laundry dressed in a halter top and short shorts. i have talked to men in their eighties who remember 70 years ago this when he was here. they said, oh, my god images grow was so beautiful. so the fbi sent a crew here to knock on his door. they did not know. they thought it was carol hellman, which was his alias. you're walking toward his apartment. it is apartment 303. all you know is that there is something suspicious in apartment 303.
this is is door right here. he is in bed with his girlfriend she opens the door, peeks out here to speak to carl holman. she forgets her own alias carl, oh, my husband. the fbi say, ma'am, we are stay right here. you go and get karl. he runs to the bedroom. the jig is up to be as the fbi pretty close to cucumbers is get your clothes on couples on his pants, it's a machine gun, comes to the store, opened this lightly, leans out, grains at the fbi and serbs firing machine-gun bullets out of the store. the police and the fbi start firing back at him. this store is chewed up by bullets. to give you a sense, not a single bullet of his gun hits any of the fbi agents in the
actual corridor the jury right now. one bullet from the fbi and the police his son dodger in the design. incredibly john dillon chair has escaped from the fbi shootout, he lays down fire and comes out this fire -- door. he is wounded. so he races over, stands you're holding a submachine gun in one hand and began in the other and tells his girlfriend to get the getaway car. literally the most wanted man in america standing here bleeding like a stuck pig. a bully in this building season and he recognizes, reaches under his back, takes out a shotgun and aims it at dillon chair who this year. seconds from becoming at the boy who killed john dillinger when his mother, hearing the shots,
tackles her son got those into the ground, and he is not killed . he gets in the getaway car and roars away to wisconsin for a little rest and relaxation at the little bohemia lodge. the deal between the crips and the cops which had stood for years, meaning they live here but do not kill or kidnap anyone here fell apart. the history of the building we are in right now which is called a landmark center. in that 1930's the public enemy arab it was called the old federal court building permit the history is incredible. above our heads on the fifth floor is the offices of the prohibition bureau. the man who headed the prohibition bureau was the man who wrote the american prohibition law, the volstead act. it was andrew volstead, a
congressman from granite falls, minn., and created prohibition in this building. then when the prohibition was repealed and all of these bootleggers, were they going to do? liquor was legal. a chance to bank robbery, kidnapping, leader of -- labor racketeering, extortion, murder, and that is what this building became. the fbi, federal bureau of investigation had this building as their headquarters. as they say, if these walls could talk "notorious stories they've been tell. the mid-1930s bank robber john villagers girlfriend was tried successfully in this room, but before she was found guilty of harboring her boyfriend, john dillinger, she tried to escape. she said she had to go to the ladies' room. the federal marshals follows her through this door, and then the
men, the marshals somewhat shy stood back allowing his go friend to go to the bathroom at which point she simply kept on going down this hallway and tried to escape. fortunately the federal marshals overcame their shyness about a female soon to be convict and grabbed her and made sure that she did not escape. the fbi was quite concerned that the debt ledger gang would try to come here with their machine guns and free his girlfriend. what you see behind my head, federal marshals armed with sawed-off shotguns and thompson submachine guns waiting in case any members of the barker game or the dillons' a gang would show up to liberate their comrade. never happened, but you can imagine what it was like in this room in the sweltering heat of the summer's of 35 and 36 when
all of the gangsters were here and everyone was waiting to see if other gangsters with machine guns would come and try to free them. we are here in the basement of landmark center which is open to the public. right here is a radiator that the director of the fbi kept one of the public enemies handcuffed to just before hoover dragged him into the courtroom to have him convicted. he pled guilty. this is a photo. in the kids were around he would make sure that they were not killed. he pled guilty to the 1933 kidnapping of a millionaire and spent decades in prison. when he got out all of the
ill-gotten loot, is kidnapped monday, ransom, bank robbery loot was in banks in accruing full interest well purpose was in prison. he gets out an old man, a wealthy man, goes to spain where he is seen eating find food, cavorting with 19 year-old girl friends. and one night he takes an overdose of sleeping pills and wine and takes his own life. he did not leave a note. i think he knew that his time has come. he had enjoyed the good life of a gangster. he was an old man. in this building is of the inception of prohibition that led to widespread organized crime all over america. that is how capone got his start as a bootlegger. and in 1934, 35, 36, this is a building or all of those bootleggers and bank robbers were tried and sent to out
address, leavenworth, and other prisons across america. it is where it began and where it ended. so every gangster in america came here. and as a result to st. paul and that 1930's, would not call it was vegas, but it was a very lively city because the gangsters brought their guns. during prohibition you had the biggest jazz artists of the decade here in st. paul. so a very, very lively place partially because the gangsters were welcome here. we are only a few yards away from the mississippi river in downtown st. paul, but we are in the underground gangster caved. this is today called the wild shot gave, but back in the 1920's and 30's it was called the castle royale. it was run as a gambling casino by gangsters. and the underground cave has a fascinating history.
these caves were naturally made in soft limestone and water dripping from the mississippi river. the bond lawyers realized it is dark, cold, private. let's fill this room with illegal beer. then prohibition was repealed and the bootleggers who filled this cave with the legal beer said, okay, beer is legal. that good people of st. paul liked partying dkb your this as well as others nearby, tuxedo waders, chandeliers, kitchens. but mind you, it was also where john devonshire, he the barker gang and other notorious
gangsters also likes to hang out. i think the appeal of this underground nightclub was that you were rubbing elbows with the most wanted bank robbers in america. today he look at the mafia with horror. organized crime, terrible people, which they are, but in those days the bank robbers like john villager were seen almost like robin hoods. they were seen as post depression when the banks would foreclose on your farm, the banks would foreclose on your house. the banks were not really popular, and the bank robbers were just robbing the bankers. so for a lot of people in those days bank robbers were seen as a time of heroes who were even the score who after the depression which is totally untrue. there were killers who wanted
money to but the public saw them in a more romantic light. and you knew, as you drank with them that they would not kill you because st. paul had the deal between the cops and the crux. it was a very rigid process. if your bank robber or a kidnapper coming in to st. paul minnesota by train, let's say, from chicago, there were rules. the rules were, you would identify yourself when you got off the train you would give a bribe to the police. some jewelry that we stolen chicago. here you go. if you need a place to stay the police would arrange for housing if you need a gun cool the best submachine guns in america were available to you. if you needed a getaway car there were auto dealers in st. st. paul who specialized in bank
robbery getaway cars, heavily armored on both sides to deflect police bullets. and if you needed a girl, female companionship, the police would arrange for girlfriend zero lead in fact, alvin creepy carpet, the gangster, met the love of his life, delores' delaney here in st. paul. essentially st. paul was a department store for gangsters. if you need a girl, gun, launder money, a getaway car, came to st. paul. the police made sure you as a gangster got whatever you needed. the fbi were trustworthy. and it drove the fbi crazy that the police in st. paul, minn. were in the pockets of the gangsters who would be partying here. when ma barker was living on south robbers street in st. paul only a few miles from where we're standing today, the fbi
got a tip that barker gay was there. the fbi raced to the house. by the time they got their the barker game was gone, tipoff by the st. paul police. so there was no love lost between the fbi of j. edgar hoover and the corrupt local confederate -- in february of the police who were taking bribes, on the take from the underworld that party here. they wanted to come in a way, lived the high life and leave a good-looking course. that is what happened. this up with beautiful women. they knew that their lives were short they lived the gangster life.
>> this weekend book tv is in st. paul, minn. with the help of our local cable partner comcast. next, we sit down. the family's experience of living in a refugee camp before resettling in the united states. that's when cities area is home to the largest community in the united states. >> to those who still lived in the mountains to my mother and father, the american shield had been lifted. the communist government that came to power in may of 1975 declared arrest warrants against those who hoped the americans and the war. may 1975 they announced the
agenda al qaeda it is necessary. some villages and began a systematic campaign to kill off it believed in the democracy. recruited by the cia. the remnants of their fight remain. the heart and the homes of their lives and their children, mothers and fathers, sons and neighbors. the biggest covert operation in cia history give a history of the people. straight into the pages of their lives. the blow all over the world.
a long time ago. but a lot of historians agree that we came from china. we emigrated to laos. this chinese are doing cultural genocide so our family cannot part of this. they came up to the mountains and ask them. they would keep fighting. america, of course to was interested the adoption. of thought of our men and boys were recruited to fight in a war that was unpopular, like many of the wars.
recruited over 32 ithaca's catholic security it scott cut cooked slaughtered in the aftermath if the americans left the country. and so my family, one of the hundreds of the death of the current political elite and '30s skikda in the is present in a way to the edge of lift import killed commute by family fled laos and became refugees in the process
book. so it becomes this history of my family. so when my grandmother promised me that she would never die. in the refugee camps suicide was the number one cause of death. so all of these people were killing themselves because there were suffering posttraumatic syndrome, depression, all of these other things. to live forever. promise me she would never die. and 2003. one she elected me and said, not giving up again. you have to understand that there were people who love to me. on mom and dad and brothers and sisters and your grandma, to. somewhere and going to go
back and there will be ready in there was a to where have you been? says he was going to go home and. because they did not have a language until the 19 fifties. to put the story on the shelves of a bigger world. so i am a late comer. the more i speak the more i travel, the more i realized that as americans are only beginning. i am from america. people are only beginning to realize that i belong to this country. so it becomes this bigger thing.
it was fake. so a year to write and a year ago the publishing which i understand is average for a book in this country. >> so was the toughest part of that? >> for me the toughest part of writing the book, writing about my grandmother is history. so how do you put an end to the book? you know, when i was under i used to hear all of these stories of a grow with brown eyes and black hair. she would want to help our mom and dad pay the bills but was too young to get a job. in the end she could die and i would say the end.
i would kill all my narrators, and that was the ending. it's hard. but understanding that a book, especially and nonfiction book has a cover with a photo of the author, it helps me. it is one piece of a big life. this bigger human experience . expecting the ending of a book. i came home from new york city after my degree to finish the book. in new york all of these. then in my professors. they were courting me to offer me. i thought it was a great way . i thought that a kid right back to the same literary houses and they would want to look at the book. by this time, i graduated in
2005. i was happy with it. i found out that none of these agents are in place anymore. there were saying that i was getting letters say we don't even know who's the arf. american history. we have had enough. and so december 17th 2007, i was feeling very different . reading that menace of those some of the finest publishing houses in the nation. independent publishing. we are looking for the underrepresented forces and literature. >> i knew immediately. i sent him a letter. as send them by chapter. and then the whole book.
that's how it came into being. so late home cover is the best selling. they do a lot of poetry books. more and more literature, creative nonfiction and fiction books. i think it is a surprise. the first, they have had ten or 20 runs now. a small independent conservative house. so each line is two or 3,000. the university of minnesota. that helped. resonating. it is helping.
number 11 of the independent book publicist. i was getting calls to do interviews on skype from massachusetts as well as other places. probably over a thousand book reviews. and that is hard. in the beginning bines a noble, borders, they did not want to carry the book in stores. i would go. no. a lot of people have been asking. they've been picking it up. we're going to offer it. that is how it came. i think it is because people feel themselves in the book. i don't know i think if of going to ask their readers to live with me and have to
have a piece of myself right there, and i think that resonates with people. so many americans are realizing that they come and call this place home. their parents or grandparents spoke with the same accent. and then i think a lot of people tell me. there is an art history, a product. we would rain the world with our sorrow. my father is my biggest literary influence. my sensibility of the world. i think a lot of readers, a lot of literary leaders are surprised. the history of my people. humanity.
i know i am writing on the fabric of a human being. i have an opportunity. for one human being to the other. the live in a world war is my money. what i buy. the currency of language. you know, and i have to say that since the book came out a lot of minnesota's have said welcome to my mom and dad to montand of goals. it we belong to each other. and here there are a lot of people who might belong to and a lot of people who belong to me. a writer does not just come from the family. he emerges from a community. the community taught me that i can be a writer.
>> during book tv recent visit to st. paul, minn., we stopped by, but bucks to hear about the impact that independent bookstores have on the community. >> we are in a residential neighborhood and right across the street from mcallister college. we have traffic. started in 2006, owned by garrison keeler. and he wanted a bookstore in the neighborhood. he looked around and found a nice space word and opened, and good books. he had a place to shop and because he wanted to give something back to st. paul. >> one of the places, painted on walls.
he chose them. put them up when he first moved in here. one of my favorites is the local favorite, if you will. in st. paul we believe that anyone who lives elsewhere must have been trapped by circumstances. we are a general interest book store heavy our literary fiction, poetry, but we cover all subjects, magazines and cars as well as books. the first event strikes them is the tables with books that we have. we find these to be the most effective selling areas that we have, the books that are easy to see and discover. because of who we are, what we have right in front is fiction. we are able to start a lot of fiction. the books that everyone expects to find and along the way books that are new to them. of course people like paperbacks as well. that is front and center as
well at the store. and nonfiction is a good category for us. the unexpected best seller of the early part of the year. another big category is regional books. most independent bookstores do very well with books about their local area. we're fortunate in that the twin cities have a lot of very strong publishers, so there's a lot of good material to choose from the summit avenue is a block north of to the street where the wealthy build their houses in the 19th and early 20th century. quite a beautiful street the literary scene is quite vibrant. we have a lot of strong readers and hit as a bookstore that is particularly good for us. a community of artists,
writers, poets paris a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a an as strong writing programs. there are several lectures series with state place at the fitzgerald theater. draws a lot of national officers and citizens. back here is the area we do our event. we put these tables on wheels and roll them out of the women we need to. give doctors a chance to meet their audiences spirited challenges of an independent bookstore the challenges of any business, getting people into the door, to understand what the products are and to buy them. we are fortunate that we are able to stock a lot of books
you don't find elsewhere. people are constantly discovering books that they don't see elsewhere. we have very good employees are able to recommend books, it will offer events and introduce people to books that might not expect to find. of course, the challenges are always getting people to come and understand what you have. that is something that is common to pretty much in the business. the on-line world is not very interesting. it does not have much in the way of characters to make for an interesting afternoon out to offer people an opportunity to stumble upon new books easily. the online retailers, it's hard to find something that will surprise you. you end up getting the books that everybody else got. this store like this, the chance to discover something new that you were not expecting. we probably have the books that you are looking for, but at the same time right
next to it is something you did not know about. if you read a little right up you can find something new. if you talk to us we are able to get something new as well. what we offer is a real-world experience to my chance of a neat other readers. the opportunity to discover a book that you were not expecting, and then that way it is simple and have really we don't feel is going to suffer from of wide competition. but we can go a little deeper. so as mall bookstore with the smaller amount of traffic, and not selling as many books, you need to buy the ones that will sell the best. that is the business decision. we are able because we have a loyal clientele and a very steady business to go a little riskier. we buy the books that everyone is going to buy, of course commend it where it will to bring in something a
little more obscure. so in that way we have things on the shelf you might not be able to find everywhere. >> during book tv recent visit to st. paul, minn., we sat down with author of the nazi and the psychologist, a profile of psychologist dr. douglas kelly was responsible for deciding whether nazis were -- not see war criminals were criminally fit for trial. >> honor and the ability to
interrogate and talk with and steady the top not see officers as they awaited trial at nuremberg. chess -- he had been a war hero. he was very unhappy and with the terms of the treaty of versailles. he wanted the provisions are not. he wanted germany to be able to are once again. the right wing a reactionary party that reflected his views and even more important and a vacuum of leaders at the top so that he could rise himself quickly. they looked at a number of parties. hitler in the early twenties , and they took to each other right away. this was a man who had the
respect of veterans and also the upper-middle-class background who. he thought that would help attract an element of the public that he wanted. and so they became partners. secco very active part in organizing. unity in 1923. the uprising put down. during that uprising. as a result, they became addicted to morphine which led later on to an addiction to another drug. one of the things that dr. kelly had to do first often treating after them and was to help them overcome addiction which he
was able to do it in pretty short order. quite strong dependency. dr. kelly got into the position of engineering the nazis at norbert pretty much just by chance. one of the highest-ranking psychiatrists and the european theater he was stationed nearby qaeda hospital. there were many others who wanted to examine these men, study them. all of those people were denied. dr. cowley was nearby in the u.s. army knew well that he got the job. he had orders from the u.s. army. something to evaluate the top ranking not see prisoners to determine whether they were mentally fit to stand trial. that was a pretty easy thing for dr. kelly to handle, but he set up for himself his own private mission which was to study much more
deeply into the minds of these men and determine the try and find out whether they carry any common psychiatric illnesses, disorders that might account for their heinous behavior during the war. he was looking for a nazi problem, one problem that affected all that could account for their behavior. he talked about it. his method of studying the others who were being held for trial was to give them a battery of tests. and also to spend hours and hours interviewing a man talking with their staff. and so his book about the whole range of things. one of the things he learned through these conversations was that he found that
during -- he had done nothing wrong. he had acted as a legitimate government official. they were on trial and not german and eisenhower and the rest yes, he egg knowledge to. disregarded trees. so deaths of tens of thousands of civilians. a role in the gestapo. the concentration camps, our role in the adoption of the nuremberg laws a nazi germany. but he saw those as legitimate acts of a legitimate government. dr. kelly found there was no
single disorder that accounted. nearly all of them weren't mentally healthy. this was a great blow to him because he was, after all, a psychiatrist and believe that the time that psychiatry could and should be able to account for all kinds of behaviors, including criminal behaviors and he was pressed to find out that it could not account for the behavior of these top not see officers and people in the government cannot third reich. i think his relationship was an unusual, unusually close for a doctor and subject. and as a subject and not patient because in most ways he was not treated like a patient. there was a bond that
develops. kelly was well aware of his bad points, no doubt about it. he wrote about how he was the coldest cold hearted man he had ever encountered, and he really pressed him at times asking why he had done some of the things that he had done, why he ordered the murder of his closest associates during one night in the 1930's. and his response was that he looked at kelly mike kelly was a done so some kind and said it was what i had to do. and personal bonds were not so important. if there was something in his way blocking his goals and his ascent to power,
that is what he cared about. kelly certainly recognize that. another interesting thing about the relationship is that he loved taking it these mental challenges. he loved scoring well on them. he scored very high in the iq category, 138. and he loved getting feedback on his responses to the roar shark test, the ink blot test. reviewed a series of a plot images. they do not show anything real. whenever stores are impressions the subject gets from them is a projection of something that is going on in the subject's mind. and it is responses were very imaginative, colorful,
often said something about himself. various versions of himself and the ink blot damages. and so he was an extremely cooperative and engaged and help pull psychological assessment participant. the kind of insight that kelly got was very sobering even though he did not find any mental disorders common. he came to the conclusion that their behavior was a reflection of normal behavior, not, and a sense that all of us would do this sort of thing, but normal in the sense that there is a small segment of those of us who are in the normal category who under certain circumstances and motivations would climb all over the backs of other people in order to get what they wanted.
what really motivated the nazis is not ideological fervor were certainly not gonzales but a hunger for power. he did what was asked of him. the certified all of the nazi leaders to be of sound mind and suitable for trial. i did not find evidence that anyone tried to influence courts to declare that these men were saying. everything that i saw pointed to kelly actually believing that in the bottom of his heart. and when it became apparent early on in the course of the trial that he would be convicted and would likely be executed he very much did not want to be executed by hanging because in his mind that was a common criminal
form of execution. he asked the allies authorities to execute him instead by firing squad. that request was denied. the allies wanted these war criminals to have a form of execution that was ignominious. and when he found out that he would not be executed by firing squad then it is likely that he sought the help of one of the american guards in the prison to get not one but two cyanide capsules out of his materials and bring to him in his cell. and so when he finally did take his life the night before he was to be executed by hanging there was not only the remains of the capsule in his mouth, there was another council in his cell hidden in another place kelly found out that he had
committed suicide. by this time he was back in the states, no longer in nuremberg. he was shocked. he did not see kelly as a suicide. he saw his suicide as a great grand theatrical statement of defiance against the americans and the allied authority. able to go out when he wanted. this made an impression. it may have led him down the same road years later. a big influence, and i think it came up 12 years later when kelly who by this time was a troubled man, an alcoholic, his marriage in trouble, emotional problems, terrific explosive temper felt that the world was waiting to watch on him. no way to know this for sure, but i believe that
kelly in some level of consciousness fought back to how he had made this great grand a suicidal statement the day before he was to be hanged. that is what he decided to do even to the point of using the same poisonous agent to achieve it. he took his life using cyanide before his family standing on the staircase overlooking their living room, a family assembled below. and that, to meet our really harkened back. a very public manner of suicide in which he was thumbing his nose at the allies. his work had a great deal of significance to my think, later on in the world of psychiatry and in the world of study of why people to what they do.
it started a big controversy. he published a book in the late 40's called 22 cels in nuremberg where he recounted his experiences with the nazis and gave a capsule summary of his interpretation of the ink blot test. these men were not mentally ill, not psychotic, did not have any kind of common disorder. and it was a message at the time that many people did not want to hear. in fact, it was a mess is that some of the people who were in nuremberg did not agree. there was a psychologist who worked alongside for several months who took a completely different interpretation of the exact same psychological effect. he did believe that there was a common thread of psychosis that ran through many of the nazis and could account for their behavior.
and then a great controversy arose about these eight plot tests. the nazi plot tests are probably the most thoroughly studied of any ever given. and there are a lot of arguments back and forth. some researchers falling into the caylee camp believing that these are basically normal ink blot results that could not be distinguished from ministers are teachers or other groups and then those who are able to find something they think significance. it has gone back and forth. the most recent study which came out in the late 1990's came down on kelly's side. they were not significantly similarities among these men or differences between the nazis in any group that you would pull out of mainstream
society, and they're is a whole field of genocides studies that studies these phenomenon, and they have identified many various ascending steps toward which genocide happens, and a think that we should pay strong attention to that and all the process as early as possible before man like goring have a chance to commit mass murder. >> next from st. paul, minn. with the help of our local cable partner we talked to a poet laureate carol connolly . >> the fact that it happens to all of us does not make it any easier. i turn a corner and suddenly without warning i stand full before a mirror, and there it is, my mother's face staring back at me in disbelief, the face i once swore would never have.
>> i orchestrate or organize a reading by writers events once a month at the university club in st. paul. writer to write their own books or writers who are new writers and so on. we have this reading once a month and we're getting great big audiences of over 100 which is a lot for a poetry reading. i do this serious which i consider my sort of gift to the poets in minnesota really. >> can you talk about the literary community in st. paul? what type of community isn't? >> i think wit we have a very vibrant literary community in st. paul and in minneapolis to st. paul, literary is respected and revered and tons of people are writing poetry and many people are getting published and then we have the stars like garrison keillor. just the guy down the street who decided to write a few poems and the turn t